This is NOT art.

[cynchick]

I look at DeviantART daily, to check my messages and see what new art was been posted. I've noticed this pattern for a while, but today it really stood out.

There were 12 pictures of female nudity on the front page. Twelve. And some of them were frankly grotesque.

Like, "lets see how ginormous I can digitally make this girl's tits compared to her frame", or "Lets tie strings around a girl's groin to mimic a rape kit and then take a close up shot of her hoohaa".

I have nothing against nudity, as you all know from some of my own art, and appreciate an artistic nude photo (in fact nude photography was a big part of how I learned to draw the human figure). But most of these are in no way artistic. Yes, art is subjective blah blah. But these. Are just ugly. Gratuitous. Porn. There is little to no skill on the photographer's part, and little artistry in the setting/pose/etc. Playboy is more artistic than some of this shit.

And if you try to report it? Because some of them aren't just distasteful, they're downright gross and offensive.... Well if you report it DA will tell you they did nothing to violate the terms of use because in order to be considered pornography they have to be touching their genitals or inserting something into it. Seriously. And believe me, these "photographers" know how to push the boundary and get away with it.

Meanwhile, many fanartists (including myself) have their work repeatedly deleted by mods who have flat out called us pedophiles who try to hide their perversions by slapping boobs on 12yr old girls and claiming their over 18. That's almost a direct quote. Even if your character, Sakura for example, is an obvious adult in the picture, you're still a sick pedo. The DA terms even state that a character will always be considered their orignal age, regardless of "aging up" or even canon timeskips. Like Kagome being 18 and marrying Inuyasha at the end of the series? Never happened. And by the way, most of the fanart that gets deleted for violations are not nude or sexual in nature. They are pictures of kissing and cuddling.

See a problem here?

I'm tired of the double standard and blatant discrimination against fanartists. I'm sick of the algorithm that determines what goes on the front page (If you didn't know, they pick the most popular deviations in each category, so something from Artisan Crafts might be there even if it only had 50 views because it was the top in its own category.) Which means the truly popular art might be on page 8 or 15. They do this because if they didn't, the first several pages would be dominated by fanart, because that's what most people are there for. DA hates this - they want to be a pretentious site for true artists.

I'm also sick of their search protocol, which posts results by title and not by subject. Even though they allow you to tag your deviations. I'll give a good example (and this isnt bragging, it's just a fact): My DeiSaku art is some of the most popular on the site. Yet if you do a search for "DeiSaku" what will come up is all the pics with DeiSaku in the title. These are not the best of Deisaku, because the artists of the better stuff generally bother to give their work a proper title. After wading through roughly 10 pages of doodles and such with 10-100 favorites, you will finally see my most faved (1125 and counting) DeiSaku pic "Stay". How is this system accurate? When you search for most popular all time, you should get most popular all time.

Anyway, this has turned into a really long rant starting with what crap passes for art, and ending up at how I despise DA in general. From this, to getting my art stolen constantly (and then told it violated policy anyway when I reported it), I've had it with that fucking site. I don't have the time, energy, or skill to make my own fansite, but I think I'm going to stop paying those assholes money for a premium account.

Comments

[eldrfire.livejournal.com]

Since DA is not the main site I use online and I'm a pretty casual user, my anger at them isn't as strong as yours, but I've thought a lot of the things you said. But I didn't know that about the search! That makes no sense, although it explains a lot-- I've been puzzled by that type of thing in searches before.

[cynchick.livejournal.com]

What site do you use?

I wish I could set up a site like Lily's

[eldrfire.livejournal.com]

Oh, I just meant that I don't go on the site that often since I'm not that involved in the online art community.

However, now that you mention it, have you ever tried mangabullet? My sister made an account there once. It's not as active of course but it seems pretty good-- the focus is on manga-type drawings, so I don't think you'd find any of the "photography" there.

[korinacaffeine.livejournal.com]

If you want to set up a site, you should! Even if you don't kn ow how to code your own website, you can pirate download DreamWeaver and have it do the work for you. ;)

Have you ever had a website before? Do you know anything about FTPs? Honestly, the hardest thing you'll come across is actually getting the domain name. But someone you know may have a domain already and can give you a subdomain. (For example, a friend of mine owns ivygardens.net. She lets me share in this, and my subdomain is fallacy.ivygardens.net.)

[cynchick.livejournal.com]

I remember you have your own site. I think Im going to try to set something like that up. Until then all my new stuff will go here at LJ.

[nimblnymph.livejournal.com]

THIS. All of this.

The "what's are and what's not" argument is an old one, but even still ... you can only push that eye of the beholder excuse so far.

And yeah, hi? Newsflash, DA: you are a fucking website, not a NYC art gallery. Get over yourselves.

[cynchick.livejournal.com]

Newsflash, DA: you are a fucking website, not a NYC art gallery. Get over yourselves.

I know right. And some of the most talented artists Ive seen on that site are fanartists, or at least have a couple fanarts in their gallery.

[nimblnymph.livejournal.com]

Exactly! It's the same argument for fanfiction and original stuff; I get really, really tired of people trying to tell me there's no legitimate merit to fanfiction. Some fanfiction writers do a better job weaving a story line than many, many authors who get PAID to sell their shit.

[cynchick.livejournal.com]

Oh I know. Like Stephenie Meyer... I'll say flat out that my writing smokes hers. I can name quite a few other fanfic writers who do too.

[korinacaffeine.livejournal.com]

And yeah, hi? Newsflash, DA: you are a fucking website, not a NYC art gallery. Get over yourselves.

Truer words have never been spoken!

[keysotosoto129.livejournal.com]

Why the hell would you pay for a premium account to start with? o.O'

And, I feel your pain, dude. DA is bull, but I have yet to find another art site that can compete. And the search thing really annoys me too. Mhjdfaolfj

And the age in fanart, is utter crap too. So much fanart is based on animes/manga that have a supernatural twist to them. In Angel Sanctuary, someone could pair Alexial with Kira, which according to DA would be pedophelia because Kira is like 17 (despite being Lucifer reincarnated) and Alexial is hundreds of years old (despite her soul being reincarnated, her body still exists and is used later). D:< And what about Bleach? Some of those captains and "new characters" are actually OLDER THAN HELL. UGH.

I think you should see if you can find a website (free or pay for it) and just design that and post your art there and then you don't have to worry about violating anyone's policies :D

[cynchick.livejournal.com]

Premium membership gets you a bunch of cool features on your profile, like stamps, and the ability to post polls and stuff. And its cheap - only $8 for 3 months. A lot of times fans will buy you subs too. But even if its only a few bucks, they dont deserve my money with the way I get treated and the crap I have to put up with.

[thatreevesgirl.livejournal.com]

Artistic nudes of men are also repeatedly reported and removed. That also pisses me off. Not as much as other galleries, but enough that I just stay here at LJ for most of my posting needs.

Popular is also a ratio algorithm. It takes into account the number of faves in relation to the total number of hits. Really popular pictures tend to have a lower fave/hit ratio than others.

[cynchick.livejournal.com]

Yeah that is really fucked up. It has to do with the male gaze and female objectification.

From what I've seen, most popular fanartists have between a 3-1 to 5-1 views-to-faves ratio. But I've also seen stuff on the front page that's only there because it was so scandalous that it got 3k views in an hour, but few faves. Like stolen art for example, or usually blatant porn.

[me-ninjakitty.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

I'm a very casual user of DA and I mostly post photos that I have taken so I don't really know the rules. But thanks for opening my eyes to the double standards that they have.

[cynchick.livejournal.com]

Yeah its pretty bad (if you're a fanartist). Ive only had 2 or 3 deviations removed, but I had to move a bunch of them myself during the last fanartist witch hunt when they were banning people left and right.

[me-ninjakitty.livejournal.com]

Sounds like people are lucky to know left from right on DA

[(Anonymous)]

"Well if you report it DA will tell you they did nothing to violate the terms of use because in order to be considered pornography _they have to be touching their genitals or inserting something into it._"


There is a picture on dA that has been reported about 55 times for being pornographic - its not photography, its a digital painting - and it is blatanly pornographic and disturbing on many levels. Yet every time people report it, the dA admins say "no its not" and close the report.

http://janaschi.deviantart.com/art/Raupture-for-Alex-145195642


They have removed the report art as stolen part in their report deviations. If you find someone's art has been stolen, you have to note the original artist and the artist has to submit a legal document demanding that dA take down the offending art or the original artist can sue.


I'm about ready to just move to another site. There is a place called art9 - you might wanna check it out. Its like dA with out all the crap.

[cynchick.livejournal.com]

The last one I reported, the girl was actually touching herself. I was still told it wasn't a violation.

I dealt with a theft recently and you don't have to submit legal proof, just a copy of your original like always. But it does suck that other people cant report stolen. Some of the stolen art comes from asian fansites and the artist has no idea because they don't use DA, nor do they speak english.

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, well... When you go into the Contact Us and go under the copyright section, theres a DMCA infringement report - thats the legal stuff. With some places (like Photobucket and Youtube), you have to submit a DMCA report to them to get the art taken down otherwise they say they dont have to. When I saw that on dA now, I figured it was basically the same thing because right before they removed the report stolen artwork in the report deviation (like just a day or two before), they would tell us that they _wouldnt_ do anything about it. They told the original artists that too. Now, I dont know if it was because they were being flooded with reports or because they just refused, but still.


Any way... maybe check out art9 - it looks pretty good. I'm not too into the layout and color schemes, but its pretty simple all the same.

[factual-legend.livejournal.com]

That picture is absolutely revolting. Ick! And under Deviantart's FAQ/TOS, the way that pornography is defined, that picture is breaking three of the rules! And it's been reported 35 times and no action's been taken? That's ridiculous!

And to cynchick, the only reason I joined DA was so I could follow your work, and I normally only browse so I never new about the search keywords, etc. It is ridiculous. >.

[cynchick.livejournal.com]

That picture is disgusting. Just because its very well made and the artists are talented does not give it immunity. Its a clear violation of 3 different rules (I read them), and it is blatant bias to repeatedly overlook it. Someone needs to start a petition against things like that.

[rapturesmusic.livejournal.com]

My girlfriend and I never talk about it, and she's one of the fanartists who's had her shit deleted (her username is RegentShaw). All her yaoi - CENSORED VIA PERSPECTIVE, MIND YOU - has been deleted, as have all her not-sexual-but-still-homosexual-pairing pictures. dA sickens me a lot of the time, which is why I spend more time in the forums than anywhere else.

[eclatc4t.livejournal.com]

late to the party, but wow MTE. all of the commentary.

i had the same experience tryng to report disturbing, blatant, disgusting porn spamming the front page, only to be told it was "art", not a violation. and they were constantly gaming the algorithms to shuffle away talented fanartists. i finally told them they were welcome to cater to the truckstop men's room crowd, i would be taking my business and my crits elsewhere. i did too.

a lot of real talent has graduated from that trashy site, leaving the underage, the uniformed, and a few gems who have made it work against all odds, like you, 'zemotion, PET, karadin, you know, all the really famous ppls.

but yeah we need a new site -- it's them and their right hand tonight, just how they like it.

[cynchick.livejournal.com]

Ive also noticed many of the old school talent has moved away. Im thinking of setting up my own site somehow, but until then anything new I do will be posted here.

[korinacaffeine.livejournal.com]

dA's big catch-22 is that while they're a horrible place for any fanartist to realistically subsist and thrive, they're also the best website for following art and getting feedback/critique. Sure, I could upload to SheezyArt, but who the hell uses it? What am I uploading it for, so people can look at it and go "Oh, that's nice." No, I'm an amateur artist; I need feedback and critique to grow.

Anyway, I might've mentioned this before, but for your explicit stuff, you could just censor it and think link offsite (like to hentai-foundry), which is what I do. It's worked out pretty well so far. I haven't had any of the censored stuff deleted. Then again, my dA popularity in no way rivals yours, so. :S

[cynchick.livejournal.com]

Yeah that's the shitty thing about DA. Its one of the only places to go to get your art out there, and where you can be part of a community.

[korinacaffeine.livejournal.com]

lmao what is it with art websites and being so fucking pretentious?

I tried to submit a couple things to hentai-foundry, and they sent me this email:

Your picture #73169 ("mmf") was rejected by SH-44154.c4b3c


The given reason(s) are: Please utilize the ''Scraps'' feature when posting sketches/WIPs.

The quality of the lines and colors in this pic are not suited for the gallery

Motherfucker, I will tell you if the lines and colors in MY picture are suitable for MY gallery. If I don't think it's a fucking scrap, it's not a scrap.

Damn, I can't remember the last time I raged this hard.

[cynchick.livejournal.com]

wow. thats fucked.

i mean.

ITS A FUCKING HENTAI SITE FOR FUCKS SAKE.

[(Anonymous)]

You cant directly link to adult themed images any more. Recently a lot of folks have gotten in trouble and banned for having linked the uncensored, full version of an adult piece of work. One gal got banned because SOMEONE ELSE linked the full version. She got the ban over turned, but the problem still stands.


So be careful.

[korinacaffeine.livejournal.com]

I suppose I'll have to take my chances in that case. I'm not nearly as well-known as cynchick and others, and tbh, I kind of like it that way. As long as I stay under the radar, I should be alright.

If I get banned, que sera sera. That'll be a pretty good indication to move on.

[(Anonymous)]

Your call, but even then I dont know if being under the radar is still safe. Folks tend to be really tattle tale on dA because theres nothing better to do. :/


But then again, its not the end of the world for folks like us who really dont care, lol

[korinacaffeine.livejournal.com]

That's why I'm so "whatever" about it. A year ago I would have cared, but now it's not such an issue. It would just give me an excuse to actually update my website and dump dA for good, haha.

[tricia1224.livejournal.com]

WOW! That is seriously messed up. What the hell are these people thinking. I found DA through fanartists. I made an account so I could view all the artwork by some of my favorite artists. I had no idea of the double standard crap.

[kashiichan.livejournal.com]

That's what I did. It wasn't until I started actually spending more time with the artists that I started finding out about all this other stuff. ):